How many hours does it take you guys now to produce a video that you would submit to the forum? And how many hours will they be spending to create their video when they're starting out? I think, like, what Dr. Raju said is correct, that if you haven't started working on it, you're going to have a long evening. But about six to eight hours to get a completed product, but that includes edits that your attendings may give you, too. Yeah. Yeah. Good answer. I'll let Philip comment, and then... I would say the same thing. About six to eight hours. General rule of thumb is about an hour per minute. You know, it's definitely a slow crawl. It really depends on what the target is. Like, if you're just making a video for a talk that you're giving, you can do that a lot faster, probably take about an hour or so to really, you know, do all that. But if you want to make one that's production quality for publication, easily six to eight hours, I would say, in order to really get the narration down, to re-record a narration if you needed to. I remember when I made one of those video plenary submissions, I noticed that on different days, the background and the audio was slightly different, just in terms of the background ambient noise. And actually, that was something that I noticed on the video you presented as well, that in their first slide, the background noise was ever so slightly different. And it has a lot to do with the position of the microphone, like the distance between your mouth and the microphone. It has to do with, you know, just all sorts of, like, various little factors. So I have had times when I've made changes to a video submission where I just said, you know what, I'm going to spend, like, 30, 45 minutes and re-record the entire footage, or I mean, re-record the entire audio script. That way, you have a consistent background every single time. So for something where you're really going for, like, a high-end publication, like Video GIE, or you're going for, like, even more so, like, video plenary or ASGE submission, that may take even longer than six to eight hours, because you're going to go through multiple rounds of editing to try to get it as perfect as you can possibly get it. One thing that... If you're going to do this cold, like you talked about, this is also a way to practice for your presentation when you're up on the podium. Yeah. I remember Chris Thompson had a rule in our group, which was to not allow the use of notes. So, you know, the nights leading up to the video plenary were basically, like, extremely stressful. I'm not very good at memorizing. I was never good at memorizing in school. I was never good at quoting numbers and quoting figures and stuff. So for me, brute force memorization is, like, one of the hardest things that I could do. I have, like, a subclinical ADD. So it's just, like, not possible. And so I remember, like, the days leading up to the video plenary, there was no other scientific information from DDW going in here. It was just, like, brute force, you know, going all the way up to the point of the video plenary. And I think it's important to do so. And the more you practice your video, the more effort you put into it. Like, one thing that Raju has taught me semi-successfully is to start working ahead of time and not doing this at the very last minute. And I think that pays off because then you're a lot more familiar with the content that you're presenting. One other thing I did want to mention is, when you record videos, like, when you record endoscopic footage, try to always remember to turn off the HIPAA identifiers on the side. That way you're not left trying to, like, gray it out or black it out or blur it out. You know, there's a way on the endoscopy, the Olympus keyboard that comes with the processor to turn off all that information. But there's also a way, if you go through your Olympus rep or Fuji or Pentax rep, to actually have it off by default. That way, by default, those identifiers are not on there when you do your endoscopy. Yeah. Correct. Is VGIE charging these days? And if you get on the plenary, you don't have to pay, right, to get on VGIE? Is that correct? I don't know what is... When we first started the journal, I think it was about $300 or something like that. But if you make it on the video forum plenary, those videos get in for free. So that's a big inducement for making a good video and submitting it to DDW. So I want to ask our colleagues here a question. How many of you are working in a facility where there is recording capability already set in place? So about 30%, right? 30%. Okay. All right. So I want to share a couple of things. One is, when you have a recording capability, one of the problems that I notice, unless you're very diligent, is you may record a beautiful video, then you will forget. You finish the case, you moved on. You can't even figure out where that video is and how to download that. So that's one problem that people face. And then the downloading may not be that easy, right? The, what I've done is, which I felt we went on a cheap route, is basically set up a computer that has, that can record video automatically. Even if you set up the, we actually set up the computers in every room, very few faculty use it. It doesn't matter, right? You may have a recording capability, it doesn't mean that it will translate into recording. So this is what I do. I try to record every video if possible. And sometimes I've beaten myself for not recording a video because there's something that I felt that I could have had that, I had that video, I would have made a teaching point. You know, there are so many teaching points you will think about as you're doing the cases. And if you don't record, you can't really do that. And the other one is when you record a video, your memory is fresh for only a few days. Maybe not more than 24, 48 hours, 24 hours max. Best thing is to do the rough editing the same evening or before the end of the week. Otherwise you'll forget. And one more thing I want to share is when you're doing a case as a regular endoscopist or an advanced endoscopy fellow, you fail and then your faculty will take over and he will complete the case, right? Neither the faculty nor you can actually revisualize what went wrong with you and what did he or she did to make it successful, right? They can explain, but you cannot really see. But on the other hand, if you record the video, you can actually go back and replay the video and figure it out. And it's not about just advanced endoscopy, you know, as you move forward, new skills will come on and you want to incorporate new skills into your practice. And how do you get good at developing a new skill is by self-directed learning. You record and then you start analyzing where you have wasted your time, where you made the wrong step, and how do you fine-tune your technique. So for most of us, when we are training, we didn't have EMR as part of our training. We didn't have EST as part of our training. Most of the people learned on the job and then tried to refine their technique, so. I think that's a great point, Dr. Raju. You know, Tom Brady didn't become Tom Brady by just, oh, I think I passed the ball that way. He looked at highlight footage, right? And so bug your attendings to give you your highlight reel for that day and review it with you. It just takes five minutes, you know. The point Raju's made is really key and something that maybe someone, one of you guys in the future will do. We've talked about, you know, how do we use it better for education? And when you're learning ERCPs, if we had the time and means where each case you do, you go back and look at it and look at what you did right, what you didn't do right, and perhaps review it with your attending. Will that improve your education, you know, the rate of learning? Will it move faster? We've talked about whether one could even do a study to see what impact video could have as an educational tool. I don't think it, you know, it's still in its infancy. It hasn't been developed. NFL, after the game, the coaches go over the film. The reason they record it is to look at what went wrong so they can teach and learn and prepare for the next game. You know, we don't do that in endoscopy. We just do it on the patients instead of learning from what we're videoing. So if you do have that means to record and can review, it's just how do we do it and incorporate it into our teaching is the challenge, I think. Joel Munzer is actually trying to do this with the ERCP. I think one of the problems, though, when you're recording, you've got to keep in mind that it's not just the fluoroscopic images, the endoscopic images that you're recording. You kind of need a camera set up in the room looking at what you're doing with your body, with your hands, and oftentimes it incorporates multiple people, right? So it's the tech or the nurse that's working with you. Are they doing something different during the ERCP that made this successful versus unsuccessful? So there's so many other factors. It's not just the endoscopy or fluoroscopy images that are going to make you better. So thanks for the morning session. Let's take a break and should we say 935, 33, 933, we're going to...

doctors

video submission

time estimation

video production

presentation skills